Stupid Question: Why is it 1500m, not 1600m?

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incarnadine

Stupid Question: Why is it 1500m, not 1600m?

Post by incarnadine » Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:16 pm

Just a question. I'm going to Armory races tonight, and there's a 1500m on the slate.

Why do the distances go 100m, 200m, 400m, 800m, 1500m? Why not 1600m? It seems to make no sense to have the race be a non-integral number of laps, in addition to the fact that 1600m is almost exactly a mile too.

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Re: Stupid Question: Why is it 1500m, not 1600m?

Post by BoilerTom90 » Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:34 pm


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Re: Stupid Question: Why is it 1500m, not 1600m?

Post by Tinman » Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:15 pm

incarnadine -

Did you see Andrew Duncan, whom I coach, run the 3000m at the Armory tonight? He ran either 8:48 or 8:49 for 3000m, according to his text message.
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Re: Stupid Question: Why is it 1500m, not 1600m?

Post by TexNav » Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:21 am

Congrats to Andrew, that is ridiculously awesome !

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Re: Stupid Question: Why is it 1500m, not 1600m?

Post by Tinman » Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:48 am

TexNav -

Yeah, it's awesome for Andrew! He think he set a personal best time (he's waiting for the official results). His best was set last year when he won his second Masters National indoor 3000m title. I think it was 8:49 high. Regardless, Andrew is rounding into top shape for the Masters Nationals this year. The track meet is in March in Albuquerque, New Mexico. That's a concern, since it is in the "thin" air (I think it's over 5,000 feet elevation there).  You just never know how your body is going to respond to altitude (elevation, technically).

Note that this whole process of getting Andrew to a point of being fit and fast again was very challenging for Andrew. Remember, he had a fluke injury (piriformis, we think) in late June, and he had to rest all of July. He put in base work in August and September - just lots of easy miles - before getting to a point where he could begin any sort of Tinman Tempo or CV work.

Anyway, I am so very happy for Andrew. He's really come a long way. The comeback trail from injury is always rough, but he kept the faith and didn't feel sorry for himself. Now, at nearly 44 years of age he is rising to his highest fitness level ever. Hopefully the ride continues to be successful for him!
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Re: Stupid Question: Why is it 1500m, not 1600m?

Post by BoilerTom90 » Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:48 am

Tinman,

You said his "highest fitness level ever."

Did Andrew run when he was younger, like HS or College? That's an impressive 3K time, for any age.

incarnadine

Re: Stupid Question: Why is it 1500m, not 1600m?

Post by incarnadine » Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:58 pm

If he was wearing a blue shirt, and has silver hair, then I saw a man of his description win a heat before mine. My 3k was 9:56, followed by a 4:40 1500m a bit later, and then much later five legs of a 50x200m 10k 10-person relay. That last race started after midnight!

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Re: Stupid Question: Why is it 1500m, not 1600m?

Post by TexNav » Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:27 pm

Here's a link, taken from on old thread, that will lead to a photo of Mr. Duncan

http://www.usatf.org/events/2008/Olympi ... otos/F103/

Thought I don't know all of his running history (HS, College, etc.) Here is a link showing his progression the past few years

http://www.therunzone.com//viewtopic.php?p=7380#p7380

incarnadine

Re: Stupid Question: Why is it 1500m, not 1600m?

Post by incarnadine » Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:41 pm

Not the person I was thinking of, and actually with that time of 8:48 or 8:49 he was probably somewhere in the top five of the very fastest heat. I believe the winner was 8:30something, but I wouldn't put money on it. I was just running around the infield trying to get warm and loose, and really enjoying the ability to run in warm "indoor weather."

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Re: Stupid Question: Why is it 1500m, not 1600m?

Post by Tinman » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:50 pm

Andrew has run since he was in high school, and he competed in college too. He was a middle distance runner - 800m and 1500m, mostly. And, he trained and raced throughout his 20's and 30's, too. He is nearly 44, and he's set several p.r.'s since I've coached him over the last 6-7 years. Andrew's very good about training smart, not missing training, and racing smart. He's lean, intelligent, and savvy too. He doesn't make excuses, either, which impresses me the most. He gets up very early in the morning to do his running, works as a district attorney in Vegas, and has a 1 year old son to spend time with (along with his wife) in the evenings. He's one of the easiest to coach athletes I've known. He just does what I say, and gets on with life. His success is a statement that one is never too old to take on challenges, and often people can set lifetime bests even when they are older.
Last edited by Tinman on Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stupid Question: Why is it 1500m, not 1600m?

Post by Tinman » Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:21 pm

Here is the results for the track meet at the NY Armory last night.

http://ny.milesplit.com/meets/75378/results/149354

Andrew was 6th in the open 3000m race.
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Jeff_D

Re: Stupid Question: Why is it 1500m, not 1600m?

Post by Jeff_D » Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:11 pm

[quote="Tinman"]
Andrew has run since he was in high school, and he competed in college too. He was a middle distance runner - 800m, mostly. And, he trained and raced throughout his 20's and 30's, too. He is nearly 44, and he's set several p.r.'s since I've coached him over the last 6-7 years. Andrew's very good about training smart, not missing training, and racing smart. He's lean, intelligent, and savvy too. He doesn't make excuses, either, which impresses me the most. He gets up very early in the morning to do his running, works as a district attorney in Vegas, and has a 1 year old son to spend time with (along with his wife) in the evenings. He's one of the easiest to coach athletes I've known. He just does what I say, and gets on with life. His success is a statement that one is never too old to take on challenges, and often people can set lifetime bests even when they are older.
[/quote]

great post tinman!

Uncle Drew ran very few miles in high school and college, probably around 20 mpw. He only began running outdoors of his junior year and continued to play basketball throughtout high school. Naturally athletic and coordinated from years of organized sports He ran 4:40 as a JR in the 1600. Senior year he ran in the fall and then basketball again in the winter. In the spring he ran 2:00 and 4:31 in the 800/1600 respectively. At the time he was a good runner for his section (I go to a school that would've been a rival hs of his actually) and finished second in his sectional meet only to run poorly in his state qualifying meet due to an early peak and cutting his already low miles.

In College he trained similiarly probably topping out at 35 miles a week. He ran a 3:59 1500 in college and ran as the 5th man on his cross country team. I do not know much more about his previous running except that he broke five minutes in his 1600 ever.

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Re: Stupid Question: Why is it 1500m, not 1600m?

Post by ap4305 » Sat Feb 26, 2011 3:06 pm

[quote="Tinman"]
I've coached him over the last 6-7 years. Andrew's very good about training smart, not missing training[/quote]

Good things tend to happen when we train consistently for a long period of time.  We can discuss the nuances of CV, VO2max, LT, etc. all day, but what matters most is how those elements are organized to enable long term development.  The best application of CV training means absolutely nothing if some unrelated flaw undermines the rest of our plan.  In our get-fit-quick culture of things like the "16 week plan" or "summer training for fall cross", it's always good to have tangible reminders from real world athletes we can relate to.  Andrew's a guy who lives in the real world and deals with everyday issues, but continues to reap the benefits of putting one foot in front of the other day after day.  There's a lot to be said for simply avoiding screw-ups.  Think of it this way...he and Tinman are in the middle of a ~2,500 day training block that has had a minimum of interruption.  Across all sports, the best performers are often not the ones with the greatest capacity heroism, but rather the ones that mess up the least!
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Re: Stupid Question: Why is it 1500m, not 1600m?

Post by TexNav » Sat Feb 26, 2011 3:57 pm

Reminds me of decathlete Dan O'Brien and how he discussed in a book something to the effect about how he would avoid simple things like running on trails, etc., just to avoid that freak injury that might take him out of training. (I am not this risk-averse) but just follows along the same lines of avoiding any interruptions to training.

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Re: Stupid Question: Why is it 1500m, not 1600m?

Post by Tinman » Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:04 pm

On a personal note, Andrew Duncan is not only a good guy, he's my friend. We are the same age, have similar backgrounds, and he's very level-headed and realistic. He doesn't try to impress himself with super-hero workouts. As I said, he follows what I prescribe for training so accurately that I seldom have to make adjustments to his schedule. He's given me confidence about what I think and believe is the right way to train. I've been able to see my methods followed for long periods of time, and from this information I can evaluate accurately the methods I use.

Drew Bean is the same way, except he has issues like asthma and one leg that is shorter than another to manage. Both guys have proven to me that the right combination of training, the right intensity, the right volume, and the application of key principles are essential to continued progress.

Alan Phillips is clearly part of my core team, too, because I have worked with him long-term, and he's shown me that someone from a non-running background (he was a high level golf player) can become a good runner with use of smart training methods and consistency. (He's also my friend and confidant!)

All three gentleman are intelligent - actually exceptionally bright - and perhaps that is one reason that they so definitively understand what I, as their coach, am targeting. It is the application of key principles that matters most. And, it is the optimal blending of training tools - elements - that provides the 5% that most people lack. What does that 5% mean? Think of it in terms of race-time. If you are a guy who can, through sheer hard work, hit 16 flat in the 5,000m, what will you run if you can get that 5% that you are missing? That's 48 seconds. Would you rather run a 16:00 or 15:12 over 5,000m? All three guys have chosen to go after that extra 5%, which is not gained by working harder but working smarter - over a lengthy period of time. That takes patience, self-control, dedication, and faith in the process.

Take care,

Tinman
Last edited by Tinman on Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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