Tinman's pacing for EZ/Very EZ paces "that day"

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rgurleyjr
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Tinman's pacing for EZ/Very EZ paces "that day"

Post by rgurleyjr » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:59 pm

Guys,

Wanted some clarification on his pacing calculator and what he calls "how you feel that day".

The deal is that a day or two after a CV workout and Tempo, my easy runs seem to feel normal just on the high end of my Very EZ pacing. So according to my last 5K, I have my EZ/VEZ paces per his calculator. The deal is this, my legs usually seem stiff or heavy and I notice if I speed up intentionally for a bit, they loosen up and I can naturally sustain faster paces. But I don't want to impede recovery from hard runs but running my EZ days too fast.

This is what I learned and wanted to make sure I'm doing it right. Two days after a CV and the first day after tempo, my runs are on the very high end of very EZ. Two days after a Tempo, I can run on the high end of easy pace. I say this is where I feel good at assuming I'm being cautious by not running them too hard. Two questions...

1) The day after a hard workout, should all paces like EZ be actually slower than the calculator says because you can't run a race that day at the normal pace? Or should you always make sure you're at least withing the range of very EZ of your last race paces?

2) Is it normal for most EZ running days to require some intentional speed to "blow out the carbon" and loosen my legs up?

dilluh
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Re: Tinman's pacing for EZ/Very EZ paces "that day"

Post by dilluh » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:46 pm

1) You're overthinking it a little bit here. True recovery runs are little more than uptempo jogging. The day after a marathon workout can often require a recovery run. If you're running appropriate pace and volume for a normal workout (CV, tempo), and you haven't overcooked the workout, the day after a workout should just be a very easy run (perhaps even a normal easy run if you're very fit). For very easy runs, if you can't hold a full on conversation the whole time, you're going too fast. That's my rough, non-analytical, on-the-fly metric. Never ever, ever do I run a pace where I feel like I'm pushing in the slightest.

2) How much time/miles are you getting in just after the workout? Run to the track 1-2 miles, track workout, 1-2 miles home? I ask because I find an inverse correlation between warm down mileage run (within reason) and how stiff/heavy my legs feel the day after. More post workout easy mileage, less stiff. Less post workout easy mileage, more stiff. For me, two days after a workout feel the same regardless - pretty much feeling good at normal easy run pace.

rgurleyjr
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Re: Tinman's pacing for EZ/Very EZ paces "that day"

Post by rgurleyjr » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:57 pm

dilluh wrote:1) You're overthinking it a little bit here. True recovery runs are little more than uptempo jogging. The day after a marathon workout can often require a recovery run. If you're running appropriate pace and volume for a normal workout (CV, tempo), and you haven't overcooked the workout, the day after a workout should just be a very easy run (perhaps even a normal easy run if you're very fit). For very easy runs, if you can't hold a full on conversation the whole time, you're going too fast. That's my rough, non-analytical, on-the-fly metric. Never ever, ever do I run a pace where I feel like I'm pushing in the slightest.

2) How much time/miles are you getting in just after the workout? Run to the track 1-2 miles, track workout, 1-2 miles home? I ask because I find an inverse correlation between warm down mileage run (within reason) and how stiff/heavy my legs feel the day after. More post workout easy mileage, less stiff. Less post workout easy mileage, more stiff. For me, two days after a workout feel the same regardless - pretty much feeling good at normal easy run pace.
Got ya on number 1.

Number 2, I do 2-3 miles cooldown. It seems the stiffness/fatigue is more from the hard workout and not the lack of cooldown (may a hair too fast). Good to know 2 days after is normal for true EZ pace.

Thanks!

Tinman
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Re: Tinman's pacing for EZ/Very EZ paces "that day"

Post by Tinman » Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:49 pm

The more stress you apply on “hard” days the easier/slower you need to run on recovery run days.

The biggest mistake made by runners is pushing the pace daily.

Stop it!

My mantra:

Slow-down on easy days and your body will become fitter and faster on your fast days.

Tinman
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rgurleyjr
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Re: Tinman's pacing for EZ/Very EZ paces "that day"

Post by rgurleyjr » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:06 pm

Tinman wrote:The more stress you apply on “hard” days the easier/slower you need to run on recovery run days.

The biggest mistake made by runners is pushing the pace daily.

Stop it!

My mantra:

Slow-down on easy days and your body will become fitter and faster on your fast days.

Tinman
runfastcoach@gmail.com
Thanks! Yes, years ago my easy days were run too fast and I really dug a hole.

dilluh
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Re: Tinman's pacing for EZ/Very EZ paces "that day"

Post by dilluh » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:44 am

This is perhaps the second most common problem distance runners face when we feel we need to get better -- running our easy runs too fast. First place goes to doing inappropriate pace and/or volume during workouts.

Remembering back to when Tom updated his website's running calculator years ago, I noticed that one of the biggest changes to the formula was that the 'easy run' pace band got wider and slower than they used to be. Perhaps Tom had more data or perhaps he's just noticed for many years that runners generally go too fast on the easy days.

This is always a good read when thinking about easy run pace and volume:

https://www.runnersworld.com/college/pi ... revolution

Rob Conner is still the coach and the U of Portland just took 2nd at D1 XC this year. This team knows how to be ready on the day it actually matters!

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