Sharpening for half marathon

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Fusio
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Sharpening for half marathon

Post by Fusio » Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:10 am

Dear all

Two days ago - on Tuesday – I did a tempo run of 30 minutes @4:04/km (6:33/mile). I felt quite strong and averaged about 86% of maximum heart rate. After this workout I came up with the idea to run a half marathon on the 8th of March, because I think I can lower my personal best of 1:26:07.

What do you think about my sharpening program until the race?

Week 3
Tue: 30min tempo (already done)
Fri: Fartlek 1min hard/1min easy 10 times trough
Sun: 1 hour 45min, last 15min moderate to marathon pace effort

Week 2
Tue: 5 - 6x1k CV with 200m jog + 4x150m quick
Fri: 40min tempo run @marathon pace effort
Sun: 1hour 30min easy run

Week 1
Tue: 4k CV with 400 jog + 3 x150m quick
Sun: Race

I run 6 to 7 times a week, so the other days would be easy and now and then I would throw in striders

Do you have any suggestions from your side?

dilluh
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Re: Sharpening for half marathon

Post by dilluh » Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:16 pm

Maybe some work closer to medium tempo pace (Tinman tempo) would be better than MP tempo runs as they more closely simulate HM pace. The idea being that you are so close to the race date, I'd think you want some specificity toward race pace. Overall though I think your plan is solid: stamina workouts with small injections of speed to keep turnover good and aerobic endurance from long runs + consistent weekly mileage.

Clell
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Re: Sharpening for half marathon

Post by Clell » Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:11 pm

I would tend to agree that at least some distance should be run at Half pace. Would 2 x 3 miles at Half pace be ok in the middle of this weekend's long run? Maybe insert 2 x 2 miles during one Medium run in the middle of the week. And lastly, would 400's at 5k pace be good? Example for Tuesday before race: 8-10 400's with 2 minute rest?

Racerdb
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Re: Sharpening for half marathon

Post by Racerdb » Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:54 pm

My training partner and I have always done 4 mile HM pace runs in the weeks leading up to the goal HM. It's a pretty good predictor as we usually can run the full HM at the same pace as our 4 mile tempos. This was before I started with Tinman's coaching so I'm not sure if he would recommend this workout or not!

Dave

dilluh
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Re: Sharpening for half marathon

Post by dilluh » Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:39 pm

About a week out from the race I think a 5-6 mile medium tempo (Tinman tempo = TT) would be good. TT pace is typically just a touch slower than HM pace so 5-6 continuous miles should be a strong effort but it shouldn’t kill you at all. If you are well rested and struggle to maintain pace for a 6 mile TT, I’d maybe reconsider your goal HM pace. I like continuous tempos better than splitting them into segments as it gets you to focus and get into a rhythm. Perhaps this is just me though. Honestly, I don't think 2 x 3 miles and 2 x 2 miles at race pace is a bad way to go, either. It has to work for you and all the variables involved.

As far as 400s at 5k pace… I’m a bit dubious as to how much they will help for the HM, honestly. Knowing myself, even preparing for a 10k race, I rarely do any 5k pace workouts. I find hill sprints to be adequate for stride power/lengthening and 150-200s on the track at mile pace with long recovery after a CV workout (or strides) for turnover. Again, this is just me. Different people respond in different ways to volumes of 5k pace work.

Ultimately I think you’re on the right path. You’ll get it 90% right by simply doing a combination of stuff a bit slower than race pace (easy tempos), stuff a bit faster than race pace (CV reps) and some stuff right around race pace (TT or HM pace).

run2thehills
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Re: Sharpening for half marathon

Post by run2thehills » Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:39 pm

dilluh wrote:TT (tempo) pace is typically just a touch slower than HM pace
This gets me confused. When I talked to Tinman about his definition of tempo, he mentioned "2h30-3h" race pace - or 5k pace + 45-50s. This is much closer to marathon pace (at least for me) than to HM pace. It is also corroborated when I input a race time on the calculator and get the tempo pace from it. So shouldn't a Tinman tempo be much slower than HM pace...?

dilluh
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Re: Sharpening for half marathon

Post by dilluh » Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:03 am

If I use Tinman’s old calculator on the RunningPRs.com website I get a Tempo pace that is HM pace plus 10s. The old calculator only has one tempo pace listed and I’m assuming it means something closer to TT, not easy tempo. If you look back at letsrun.com forum archives you’ll find Tinman laying out three different tempo paces that were based on recent 5k pace. I find these to still be useful and informative for reasonably fit runners. The new version of the calculator on runningprs.com now has two tempo paces: easy tempo and tempo (still referred to as Tinman tempo I’m not sure). Again, tempo (or TT) is about HM pace plus 10-20s. Easy tempo is about HM pace plus 30-40s.

People have gone 'round and 'round on many message boards about what tempo is and isn't. I tend to think of it as not one specific pace but a range of paces that are useful for training high-end aerobic endurance.

Ultimately, if you're being coached by Tinman, you should do what he says but just remember that there are many useful “tempo” paces.

dilluh
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Re: Sharpening for half marathon

Post by dilluh » Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:16 am

run2thehills wrote:
dilluh wrote:TT (tempo) pace is typically just a touch slower than HM pace
This gets me confused. When I talked to Tinman about his definition of tempo, he mentioned "2h30-3h" race pace - or 5k pace + 45-50s. This is much closer to marathon pace (at least for me) than to HM pace. It is also corroborated when I input a race time on the calculator and get the tempo pace from it. So shouldn't a Tinman tempo be much slower than HM pace...?
I didn't read this close enough. Yes, you are right. If TT is HM + 10-20s, then that is pretty well in line with MP (for a fit runner). Whether I'd say TT is "much" slower than HM is semantics I suppose. :) I will still stand by the idea that a 6 mile TT run is useful for HM preparation.

Tinman
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Re: Sharpening for half marathon

Post by Tinman » Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:26 pm

I believe Tempo running should not be hard, nor should it be easy.
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Fusio
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Re: Sharpening for half marathon

Post by Fusio » Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:37 am

Thank you all for your nice feedbacks.
I'll keep you updatet. At the moment I'm not sure if I should run the half or opt for the 10K race.

dkggpeters
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Re: Sharpening for half marathon

Post by dkggpeters » Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:12 am

Tinman wrote:I believe Tempo running should not be hard, nor should it be easy.
It is my belief that tempos are typically ran to fast and turn into time trials for most people. I catch myself falling into this trap quite often and have to remind myself to slow down and run it the correct intensity. You should feel like you can continue on and should never be in duress.

Fusio
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Re: Sharpening for half marathon

Post by Fusio » Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:12 am

Finally due to other obligations, I did not race on March the 8th.
The next opportunity would be a 5 or 10K this Sunday. Last Friday I did a 5K time trial in 19:28. I guess it should be possible for me to run sub 19 minutes in a race.
Do you have any experience with weight loss and race time improving?
I’m 1.75m (5’ 9”) and 78kg (172 pounds). I think I can go without any problems to 70kg (154 pounds), because sadly I have enough belly fat left and often I eat like a pig. :-\ What could be the effect on race time?

dkggpeters
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Re: Sharpening for half marathon

Post by dkggpeters » Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:15 am

On longer races it is about 2 seconds per lb. On shorter races it is probably half that.

Fusio
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Re: Sharpening for half marathon

Post by Fusio » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:11 am

dkggpeters wrote:On longer races it is about 2 seconds per lb. On shorter races it is probably half that.
So it could be beneficial to lose some ballast.

I’m quite not sure if I should go for the 5 or the 10K this weekend. What would you suggest in view of a 10 mile race two weeks later? Better the 5 or the 10K?
My main goal this year is a marathon in the end of October.

Tinman
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Re: Sharpening for half marathon

Post by Tinman » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:06 pm

A 10 km race two weeks prior to 10 mile race is excellent prep!
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