supramaximal interval training for 10k

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runkona
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supramaximal interval training for 10k

Post by runkona » Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:12 am

Can this be done? Or perhaps could be done?

dilluh
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Re: supramaximal interval training for 10k

Post by dilluh » Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:34 pm

I had to look this terminology up as I had no idea what it meant. As I understand, it is short interval exercises at faster than VO2max paces with long periods (full recovery) of low-intensity rest. As I understand it, the 10k is a very stamina-specific event and workouts that have long-ish repetitions at race pace or close to it (CV, for instance) are of high value to make you race fit for this event. Going faster than VO2 max with a good long jog recovery is something that Tinman has talked about often. For instance, things like 4x200m at mile race pace w/ full jog recovery at the end of a CV workout. I’m not sure if this qualifies specifically as a supra maximal workout by definition.

I do not believe that one can race a good 10k just off of supra-maximal training (SMT) alone just as I don’t think one can race optimally off of HIIT training. Stamina is key and I don’t think I would ever focus an entire 10k-type workout on SMT. I remember Tinman saying that one could probably get to within 90-95% of their ability in the 10k by only using race-pace long-rep workouts in enough volume as your key workout with sufficient weekly mileage. That extra 5-10% could be important to you but it shows how crucial high stamina is to optimal results in these race distances.

runkona
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Re: supramaximal interval training for 10k

Post by runkona » Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:28 am

There is a general consensus that a period of speed endurance training in endurance-trained subjects leads to marked performance improvements during supramaximal and repeated high-intensity exercise lasting less than ~ 10 min. One study it was observed that after a 6-week program involving anaerobic hill running, five endurance-trained men increased the mean distance covered in 2 maximal runs of 60 s and 90 s each by ~ 13%. Which is nice right. So if there is sinificant increases in performance is observed in events lasting 4–6min with studies involving shorter recovery times between the intervals (e.g. 30-s exercise separated by 30-s rest periods, should we be doing such protocols in microcycles , recovery and then repeat again in another microcycle in the training plan?

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Re: supramaximal interval training for 10k

Post by Spider Man » Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:40 am

Hi Runkona,

The original post was in the form of a question ...
The question you should have asked was "SHOULD this be done?"

Supramaximal intervals may well (as you state) have a roll to play in races that last LESS than 10 minutes, but as the current 10K WR stands @ 26 minutes 20 seconds approx (i.e. 2.6 x ten minutes) & the vast majority of runners take 35 minutes+ to race a 10K, then the efficacy of this type of training for 10K performance is at best likely to be minimal ... & at worse, if poorly applied within the training programme, could inhibit aerobic development ... In short, specificity is key, & to optimize 10K performance the type of intervals likely to offer the best "bang for your buck" are longish intervals that are at (or near to) 10K pace ... basically, CV-type work.

Additionally, you should always treat "scientific" studies with great caution ... unless you know exactly what is the training background of the population tested, the exact protocols used, the length of study (& many, many other factors) ... drawing simplistic conclusions can be dangerous. ... It is far better to look at (& base your training approach upon) what the best athletes & the best coaches actually do.

Alan.

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Re: supramaximal interval training for 10k

Post by dilluh » Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:51 pm

Spider Man wrote: Additionally, you should always treat "scientific" studies with great caution ... unless you know exactly what is the training background of the population tested, the exact protocols used, the length of study (& many, many other factors) ... drawing simplistic conclusions can be dangerous. ... It is far better to look at (& base your training approach upon) what the best athletes & the best coaches actually do.

Alan.
This is spot on. The study mentioned that these were "endurance trained" athletes but that doesn't tell us much. This is not to say that supra-maximal sessions are absolutely harmful to 10k performance. For the right runner, with the right training, at the right time, and in in the right amounts it might be perfect - it's impossible to say without more information. But as a blanket statement on optimal 10k training I think the results would be mixed at best. In fact, I think you might find that a lot of 10k athletes would get pretty dinged up on sessions like these leading into a key 10k race and thus underperform.

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Re: supramaximal interval training for 10k

Post by Tinman » Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:52 pm

As long as you don't get injured and you still do all the stamina training that you need in order to be fit for a 10km race, it's fine to perform supramaximal training. I caution you to start small; avoid going after a lot of fast reps when you start supramaximal training, or you will end up being at home nursing an injury when the big race day arrives.
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